[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 59, showers on trail. go solar.

Fri Dec 12 15:27:25 CST 2008

I can't resist commenting on the current discussion about showering. You don't have to go into town to get a good shower. And you don't have to be satisfied with justsponging off on the trail. I have made good use of my 10.5 oz, 2.5 gallon Sun Shower for years on backpacking trips, on saddlebaging trips with my horse, and on my thru-ride on the PCT this year. Solar really works... it really does. Another good use of the sun shower is to provide the convenience of having gravity-fed running water in camp. I enjoyed having my "0" days on the trail, having cached my resupplies at road crossings or at trailheads. 

Ed Anderson. MendoRider on the trail.

From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net <pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 59
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 7:33 

You can reach the person managing the list at
	pct-l-owner at backcountry.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Pct-l digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: the use of sleeping bags, design, choice, etc.
      (ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com)
   2. Re: Sleeping bag question (Brian Lewis)
   3. Re: Leaking Pipe Near Cooper Cyn Camp (Bill)
   4. Correction Water near GlenWood, not Cooper Angeles Forest (Bill)
   5. trail showers (jape1 at cox.net)
   6. Re: zero days (nights) on the trail instead of in town?
      (Bob Sartini)
   7. Re: zero days (nights) on the trail instead of in town?
      (ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:47:41 -0800
From: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] the use of sleeping bags, design, choice, etc.
To: "Eric Lee \(GAMES\)" <elee at microsoft.com>,
	<peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>,	<pct-l at backcountry.net>,
"Paul"
	<paul_c at tuxcnc.org>
Cc: Postholer <public at postholer.com>
Message-ID: <DF30B6FC0CC947B4B1A289ADA950814F at PacificCrestPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Thanks, Eric! I always appreciate your insights.

After 34 years of teaching wilderness travel skills, selling the gear, even 
designing some, but mostly testing new, sponsored gear on our school trips 
(Mountain Education) as well as the longer voyages on the pct and cdt, I'd 
like to encapsulate what has been said in the light of all this:

The premise of clothing is to capture body-radiated heat next to the skin 
and thereby keep us warm. The more air that can be held within the fibers 
(micro fibers), the greater the R-value, so to speak, of the garment. Thus, 
a down jacket, which, efficiently, can hold a lot of air heated by the body, 
has the potential of keeping you very warm-as long as the wind doesn't blow

it out of the spaces held by the fine feathers. Therefore, the need, in a 
windy and cold environment, for a wind-proof outer covering over the down 
jacket. The thicker the garment (full of fine fibers), the more air it can 
hold, the better the insulator. Same with home insulation.

Now, a sleeping bag was designed to work the same way. Heat held still, as 
Eric said, within the clothing, will keep you warm. But, when clothing is 
worn inside a sleeping bag, it prevents the heat from being held more 
efficiently within the down and you are warmer because of the multiple 
layers involved, not because you have the most efficient bag.

Mountain Hardwear, The North Face, Sierra Designs, and Marmot all sponsored 
me in one way or another over the years or taught me how to sell their 
clothing and the gist of the sleeping bag design was this:

    The body radiates heat into the space between the skin and the down and 
eventually it is held by (or bonds onto) the fine fibers of the down quills. 
The down holds it undisturbed better than does the space between the skin 
and the down, thus, allowing the heat to be held in the down is more 
efficient. The closer the down can be to your skin, the less energy the body 
has to expend on heating the space between. A tight bag is more efficient, 
but don't plan on rolling around in it. Roll around with it! Movement does 
encourage or push heated air out of the bag, so the process of reheating 
begins all over again, roll after roll, all night long.

    Here is where membranes come in which reduce cold air from blowing the 
heated air out and keep you from rolling the air out as well. They are 
marketed with many names, but they work wonderfully and greatly increase the 
rating and efficiency of the bag (price tag, too).

    Hoods, draft collars, zipper draft barriers, foot boxes, half zippers, 
etc. all contribute to keeping the heat in and a more efficient bag.

    The bigger and finer the feathers, the more heat can be held. The more 
the down is crushed, stuffed, stored stuffed, the less the feathers can 
expand and hold air. Uncertain about how dirt and body oils contribute to 
efficiency loss. With use, the feathers will crush and the bag will loft and 
hold heat less. They have a lifetime.

    Store down as un-stuffed as possible. Hanging on a sleeping bag hanger, 
open under the bed, in a storage stuff sac (laundry bag as mentioned), for 
reasons above.

The only way to decide what kind of bag works best for you is to try out 
different types (down vs. synthetic), sizes (mummy, rectangular, quilt...), 
designs (slanted baffles, chevron slanted baffles, longitudinal baffles, 
quilts sewn-through, etc.), loft heights, and on and on.

For the most part, men create more heat than women. Therefore, we have 
always encouraged the ladies on our trips to choose down articles (parkas, 
booties, bags...) unless allergic, then go with the synthetic.

Most of all, Know Thyself. Only you can know what works best for you in the 
conditions you expect to encounter. To find that out, take numerous pre-trip 
weekend test hikes in all the worst weather and terrain. Just because it 
seems that most folks do the pct in an "ultra-light" manner and take
a tarp 
or no stove doesn't mean you will want to or should. Part of wilderness 
hiking is discovering who you are and what matters to you, apart from the 
maddening crowd. Go work out the details as they pertain to you, then go 
hike the Crest!

Mtnned
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Lee (GAMES)" <elee at microsoft.com>
To: <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>; <pct-l at backcountry.net>;
"Paul" 
<paul_c at tuxcnc.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Sleeping Bag Ratings

> Patti wrote:
>>
> actually the more layers u wear the colder u are from what I was told b/c 
> the bag uses ur body heat to warm up. So if ur wearing more layers then 
> it's that much more work for the heat to get to ur bag...just what I
was 
> told by several bag reps that's all
>>
>
> I'm pretty sure that's nonsense, no offense.  The idea here is to
keep the 
> heat from leaving your body.  It doesn't matter what kind of
insulation 
> you use to accomplish that, or what temperature the bag itself is.  The 
> more clothes you wear, the more total insulation you have and the less 
> heat escapes.
>
> Now, there are a few important caveats that I suspect people get mixed up 
> with the main idea, resulting in the advice you got from the bag reps.
>
> The first is that you don't want to wear really tight clothes, or so
many 
> layers of clothes that they become tight.  If you do, that will restrict 
> blood flow to parts of your body and those parts will end up feeling cold.
>
> Second, you don't want to wear damp clothes to bed, because as the 
> moisture evaporates off of them it takes your heat with it.  If all you 
> have are wet clothes, you may be better off wearing no clothes at all. 
> But dry clothes are always better than no clothes.
>
> The third is that you don't want you plus your clothes to be too big
for 
> the bag, which compresses the bag's insulation.  Sometimes people
think 
> that it's the actual feathers or synthetic fibers themselves that trap

> heat, but it's actually the still air trapped inside the insulation
that 
> traps the heat.  If you compress the insulation, there's less trapped
air 
> and so it works less effectively.
>
> Fourth, you don't want a bag that's too big for your body, not
because it 
> takes more work to "heat up" a big bag, but because a big bag
has more 
> surface area.  Assuming your bag is relatively uniform, each square inch 
> of your bag will leak a certain amount of heat based on the relative 
> difference in temperature between the inside and the outside.  If you add 
> more square inches of surface area, that's more total heat that's
leaking 
> out.  If you reduce the surface area, that's less heat that's
leaking out. 
> At least, until you hit the third caveat above.
>
> Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:06:51 -0800
From: "Brian Lewis" <brianle8 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Sleeping bag question
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
	<bd5c16ca0812120006o3877151bp76c3dbf4a6ac9eeb at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Tamsin said: "I'm getting the sense from some feedback that maybe I
should
stick with a 20F bag all the way through and maybe even bring a silk liner
for the shoulder seasons and the Sierras. Should I bother swapping out for
the 40F bag at any point, to save weight and not be too warm at night?"

We're not all alike in terms of how warm is "warm enough", but
FWIW a 20
degree bag felt like the right choice for me for the first 1000 miles or so
this year, and then I was happy to swap to a 32 degree bag for the remainder
of the trip after the Sierras (I think I switched in Bridgeport (Sonora
Pass)).   My Western Mountaineering ("Summerlite") 32 degree bag is
not only
lighter but lower bulk.   On colder nights I still had the option of an
additional warmth layer (thermawrap jacket) to put on if needed, but I
didn't need it, not even in Washington state in September (I got into
Canada
Sept 16th).   I did use a silk liner, but don't think that makes so much
difference to matter much.

If I were to do it again, I'd go with the same plan, but again --- we
don't
all have the same metabolism, nor hiking style, etc.   One other thing that
could matter is your tent choice, as some tents add to your overall warmth.
I cowboy camped for the first 700 miles, though I had a very lightweight
bivy I used a couple of times (for bugs or creek-side dew, not heat
retention).  I switched to a single-wall tarptent at Kennedy Meadows (~start
of Sierras), and used that for the rest of the trip.  Even a single wall
tent adds a little warmth, believe it or not, unless there was substantial
wind I could feel the different when just the mesh door was open or zipped
shut.  Any doublewall tent makes a more significant difference.

Brian Lewis (Gadget)
http://postholer.com/brianle

P.S.  Pay no attention to what Handlebar says about warmth; anyone who
early-season glissades down mount Baden-Powell in a kilt can't be trusted
for temperature ratings.  :-)

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:19:51 -0800
From: "Bill" <BillBatch at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Leaking Pipe Near Cooper Cyn Camp
To: <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <D4F678C35D144580B613AFDB15BB6CDA at HomeOffice>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Ahhhh sh*t.  Thank you.   It is Camp Glenwood, not Cooper Camp.   You know,
in my head I remembered the double "O" in the name and when I went to
look
it up . . . 

Correction:

----------------

Pipe referred to on the water report is near Camp Glenwood (0.7 past).   I
updated the water report correctly, but not my journal.   

  _____  

From: patti kulesz [mailto:peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:22 AM
To: Bill
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Leaking Pipe Near Cooper Cyn Camp

hmmm, I'm pretty good at noticing things no one else does...never seen
it...funny...are u talking about the cabin by three points? there's no
cabin
in cooper

patti  <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/50.gif> 

--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Bill <BillBatch at cox.net> wrote:

From: Bill <BillBatch at cox.net>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Leaking Pipe Near Cooper Cyn Camp
To: peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:33 PM

Yes, on the left side of the trail approximately 0.7 miles past (nobo) the
cabin and tables.

  _____  

From: patti kulesz [mailto:peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:47 PM
To: Bill
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Leaking Pipe Near Cooper Cyn Camp

I've never seen that pipe...is that on the actual trail? I go out there
alot
too. Cooper is one of my fav places to go for a quick overnight....been many
times

patti  <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/50.gif> 

--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Bill <BillBatch at cox.net> wrote:

From: Bill <BillBatch at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Leaking Pipe Near Cooper Cyn Camp
To: "'Bill'" <BillBatch at cox.net>, pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 8:32 PM

I was told the links were broken (too long)

Try this one

http://tinyurl.com/5d26yk

-----Original Message-----

From:
 pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]

On Behalf Of Bill

Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:08 PM

To: pct-l at backcountry.net

Subject: [pct-l] Leaking Pipe Near Cooper Cyn Camp

FYI,

There is a leaking pipe for water reported near Cooper Cyn Camp.  Since

Cooper Cyn appears to be dry indefinitely (pipes all broken up), this water

pipe is a good alternative.   It was reported leaking back in June of last

year and I found it still leaking a week
 ago.   Therefore, I think it can be

considered reliable.

I took some pictures of the enclosure and then from the top into the

enclosure with the lid off so people have an idea of what to look for.   You

really can not miss it.

The pictures are part of this trail journal entry.   You can click on the

small photo on the top right to see all three photos.  #s 2 and 3 are the

pipe.

http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=0d65d49dd9a04dbb7fb4ddeac44

98375

<http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=0d65d49dd9a04dbb7fb4ddeac4

498375&entry_id=6127> &entry_id=6127

Bill - Pink
 Gumby

_______________________________________________

Pct-l mailing list

Pct-l at backcountry.net

http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

_______________________________________________

Pct-l mailing list

Pct-l at backcountry.net

http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:23:57 -0800
From: "Bill" <BillBatch at cox.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Correction Water near GlenWood, not Cooper Angeles
	Forest
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <59FEFB793B9042278A0C9383D4A35057 at HomeOffice>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Correction:

----------------

The Pipe referred to on the water report is near Camp Glenwood (0.7 past).
I

updated the water report correctly, but not my journal or this list.   So
the important water report is right, I will fix my journal.   Sorry for any
confusion.

Thank you Patti.   

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 6:58:27 -0800
From: <jape1 at cox.net>
Subject: [pct-l] trail showers
To: pct-l at backcountry.net, 	Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com
	<diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
Message-ID: <20081212095827.JQEU9.13356.imail at fed1rmwml38>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

some showers listed along the eastern Sierra are here:
http://www.climber.org/data/showers.html

---- Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
wrote: 
> <snip>
> 
> It helps to avoid a hotel if you don't need to take a shower. I had  
> considered, yet never attempted, asking hotels if I could take a  
> shower in a dirty room before they cleaned it. Somehow I think they  
> would probably say no.  I wonder if maybe there were more places where a 
> shower could be had  with a hose.<snip>

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:11:09 -0500
From: "Bob Sartini" <r.sartini at rcn.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] zero days (nights) on the trail instead of in
	town?
To: "Julian Plamann" <julian at amity.be>, "pct-l"
	<pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <AE3BF8C710C04D968A7D505AD3B1743A at Den>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

I did the AT with only four Zero days  when I passed near relatives homes.
Once you get tuned into the trail I don't feel I need zero days. But one 
thing leads to another. Resupply to shower to laundry to motel can become 
inevitable.  On another trip I took a zero on the trail and was bored silly. 
I also got tired explaining to people hiking by that I was not hurt, 
everything was cool, etc. But for many  zero days are good. They let you 
take the  trail as a series of one week backpacking trips instead of the 
huge undertaking it can be.

"EVERYTHING is in walking distance,"
    ......Bamboo Bob
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julian Plamann" <julian at amity.be>
To: "pct-l" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:57 PM
Subject: [pct-l] zero days (nights) on the trail instead of in town?

> The subject of thru-hike cost that has been floating around on the list 
> for
> the past week or so has got me curious about something.
> Are there any former thru-hikers that managed to spend the majority of 
> their
> zero days+nights on the trail itself? I'm talking somewhere in the
range 
> of
> 5 or less nights spent at hotels or in hostels. I may be wrong, but I 
> think
> I remember reading somewhere that Billy Goat spent every night sleeping
> under the stars on at least one of his thru-hikes. I also recall reading a
> few comments in Yogi's handbook of hikers saying they wished they had 
> taken
> more on-trail zero days.
>
> I say this in anticipation of my upcoming thru -- not as a plan by which I
> can save money, but rather because I've always been more comfortable
> sleeping under the stars than in an enclosed room. That said, I also know
> well the feeling of occasionally needing to get the type of clean that can
> only come from a hot shower and freshly laundered sheets.
>
> -Julian
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:34:15 -0800
From: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] zero days (nights) on the trail instead of in
	town?
To: <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>,	"Julian Plamann"
<julian at amity.be>
Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <D7B93F447D2D4043B2CBDC246C96915F at PacificCrestPC>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Good morning, Patti!

I applaud you for desiring to take the method less traveled, so to speak. Some
want to run away into the woods. Some just can't take people anymore and
need a break. Most, it seems, simply want a change of scenery but not habit and
go into the mountains to hang with new friends and take on a new challenge,
hiking 25-35 mpd (forget even reaching Canada) in gorgeous scenery with
camaraderie parties along the way. Most of them become disillusioned with the
trail, too, since that experience was little different than what they knew
prior, and drop out never knowing what they missed.

Case in point:
    Occasionally I teach skill clinics right on the trail to the herd as they
pass by a particular area. In '06 I had the opportunity to hike with the
herd out of Kennedy Meadows to Chicken Spring Lake in order to teach them,
during a high snow year, how to cross swollen creeks and self-arrest techniques.
I met and hiked with many of this swarm, great folks, indeed, however, one guy
stood out for this reason:
    He said that from the moment he started his hike, those he met encouraged
him to hike fast and get the miles in daily. He was a strong fellow and had no
problem with that, but the ethic required allowed no time for fun and enjoyment
of the wilderness he was flying through. By the time I reached him, the herd had
just received their snow-related gear, was encumbered and complaining about all
the useless weight of snowshoes and the like, and had slowed down, now climbing
up into the Sierras. This suddenly allowed for lunchtime naps and 10-15 mile
days.
At one lunch he mused with me that one of his pleasures in life was to climb
trees and enjoy the views. Up to then there had been no time for even that. 
    I asked him why he was out there; what was his purpose in hiking from
Mexico to Canada. He admitted that he had adopted the standards of everyone else
from even before the trip started (ultralight, high mileage, no on-trail zeros,
multiple trips off trail, frequent resupplies, etc.) and was thinking of
quitting and going home. I told him there were other ways to enjoy the journey
and he began to realize that he could change his new habits and begin to enjoy
the trail more while still maintaining his required pace. He immediately climbed
a suitable tree nearby!
    Although he did leave the trail burned out and disillusioned, I heard he
had a new outlook on things and was going back to school. I have not talked with
him since and do not remember his trail name.

So, like Thoreau, know why you want to live deliberately in the woods and if
you're content with what you wish to do and how you wish to accomplish it,
even if apart from the ways of the herd, it is your own adventure and plan
accordingly.

Mtnned
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: patti kulesz 
  To: ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] zero days (nights) on the trail instead of in town?

        I haven't hiked the entire PCT yet but will in 2009. I totally
agree with you. I was planning on resupplying every ten days or so and I've
had soooo many people tell me no do it more often. I want to saty on the trail
as much as possible and explore, etc like you said. I love the wilderness and I
want to be there the entire time not in the towns mingling, ect. Even here in LA
people who have lived here all their lives tell me, b/c I have only been here a
few years, that I know of trails they have never heard of...it's b/c I would
rather be out there than here in the city and I stare at maps all day and say I
want to be there and I go and explore. There are places right on the trail to
shower at campgrounds and hot springs....you just have to look for them, which
is what I do...that's what maps are for I guess...hehe

        patti

        --- On Thu, 12/11/08, ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com
<ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com> wrote:

          From: ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com
<ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>
          Subject: Re: [pct-l] zero days (nights) on the trail instead of in
town?
          To: "Julian Plamann" <julian at amity.be>,
"pct-l" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
          Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 10:37 PM

For Julian and aspiring class of 2009,On both of my pct and cdt treks, I rarely
left the trail. Nearly all of my "zero days" were on-trail and I loved
them that way.I was out there to live deliberately the trail life and to stay
out of the towns (it took too much trouble and energy to get to
 them, anyway!). So it can be done - if you want to.I was fortunate in that
most of my resupply boxes were personally delivered to me at highway crossings,
campgrounds, ranger stations, and the like on or near the trail, so I didn't
have to hitch to towns, which were a shocking affair, anyway. I wanted to spend
as much time in the wilderness as possible.Showers were sponge-baths, relished
and invigorating!Clothes were "washed" as needed in my cook pot with
Dr. Bronner'sCastille Soap.Regarding food: I didn't care about
weight-even carried miscellaneous booksto read for fun-so I carried a lot of
food to pig-out with on "daysoff."I left early on my trips, so there
was no one else out there to be social with, which might have caused me to go
into town once in a while.To me, it seems like a tremendous waste of energy to
be going off trail so often, as many do these days.
 Plan your trip for how you want to experience it. That means you've got to
know what you want. Unfortunately, for many, that takes time and a level of
self-awareness that goes deep. In our busy world, there is little time for
serious, or even introspective, thought, so many just count on other's
experiences and lessons to guide them, though often finding, once they hit the
trail, that what worked for anotherdoesn't work for them.Zeros on trail
allowed me, also, to explore other things like that peak over there, go swimming
and lay out in the sun despite the ants and bugs, climb a tree or two, catch up
in my journal while listening to the creek, eat some more, take the time to try
to cook a BIG meal, hike a loop trail in the area, hang out with some
newly-acquired friends, go fishing, re-organize my pack, dry out wet clothes,
tent, bag, etc..Hiking the Pacific Crest Trail does not always
 have to be about getting from A to B, putting the miles in, etc.. Most likely
you will not do it again. This, for many, is a once-in-a-lifetime adventure. How
do you want to experience it?Mtnned----- Original Message ----- From:
"Julian Plamann" <julian at amity.be>To: "pct-l"
<pct-l at backcountry.net>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:57 PMSubject:
[pct-l] zero days (nights) on the trail instead of in town?> The subject of
thru-hike cost that has been floating around on the list > for> the past
week or so has got me curious about something.> Are there any former
thru-hikers that managed to spend the majority of > their> zero
days+nights on the trail itself? I'm talking somewhere in therange >
of> 5 or less nights spent at hotels or in hostels. I may be wrong, but I
> think> I remember reading somewhere that Billy Goat spent
 every night sleeping> under the stars on at least one of his thru-hikes. I
also recall reading a> few comments in Yogi's handbook of hikers saying
they wished they had > taken> more on-trail zero days.>> I say this
in anticipation of my upcoming thru -- not as a plan by which I> can save
money, but rather because I've always been more comfortable> sleeping
under the stars than in an enclosed room. That said, I also know> well the
feeling of occasionally needing to get the type of clean that can> only come
from a hot shower and freshly laundered sheets.>> -Julian>
_______________________________________________> Pct-l mailing list>
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End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 12, Issue 59
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