[pct-l] permits

[Donna Saufley]

The comments were for everyone, not just you.  Didn't want anyone out there thinking it is okay to skip the can or the permits. It's entire understandable that the new folks will ask the same questions, and it is the absolute purpose of this list to educate and share information.  Just wanted to let you know that this one seems to begin a flood every time it comes up!

L-Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Sartini [mailto:r.sartini at rcn.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:23 AM
To: Donna Saufley; 'Robert W. Freed'; pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] permits

 SAID I was a good dubie and would get a can. I am not trying to ignore the 
rules. It looks like people think I need can too. Nuf said.

I hope you PCT vets can tolerate some of the UGH things that come up again 
and again. Not all of us have been reading this page for ten years. :)

 I actually thought that is what the page is for.


"EVERYTHING is in walking distance,"
    ......Bamboo Bob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
To: "'Bob Sartini'" <r.sartini at rcn.com>; "'Robert W. Freed'" 
<robert at engravingpros.com>; <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: [pct-l] permits


This is one of those topics that has been dragged through the post over and 
over and over.  It will probably continue to come up forever.  (sigh)

Bear cans are NOT optional for thru hikers in the required areas.  How the 
rangers deal with individuals is much like traffic cops deal with speeders. 
Sometimes, if you're very lucky, they give you a warning.  But that's not 
something to be counted upon, and you just may get fined or rerouted. But 
that's a narrow vision of why you should carry a can. Here's the story:

Bears in the Sierras were systematically trained to live off humans.  Back 
in the 50s they used to give showings of feeding the bears at the dump in 
Yosemite.  I can remember in the 60s bears coming up to cars to get food in 
the Sequoias, and people feeding them. In those early days of our National 
Parks, people were unaware of the long-term consequences of these behaviors. 
Campgrounds historically had poor food protection, and the bears became 
accustomed to raiding camps for easy pickings. The results of these past 
behaviors have been catastrophic to the black bears in the Sierras.  They 
become addicted to the higher fat content of human foods -- it's like crack 
to them. Because of the higher fat content, they have higher birth rates 
which exacerbates the problem.  The habits are passed from adults to cubs, 
and the cycle continues.  It's nearly impossible to break an adult bear of 
this habit (there's only a slim chance of rehabilitating cubs). Relocating 
bears doesn't work either . . . they'll travel miles and miles to find 
access to human food, creating the same problem somewhere else.

Unfortunately, this constant interaction with humans has made the bears 
extremely brazen.  They demolish vehicles getting after food, in 
campgrounds, and can get to the point where they bluff charge people for 
their food.  This is when they have to be shot.  The number of bear 
incidents in Sierra campgrounds number in the hundreds.  The backcountry in 
early season is relatively free from bears, but as the summer wears on they 
move up and can be a problem up higher as they move up for their search for 
food.

So, the bottom line of all of this is that bear cans are to protect bears 
from the fate of being shot.  The rules have been put in place to 
discontinue the practices of past generations, and try to keep the bears 
wild. It's an incredible thrill to see bears and other wild animals in their 
habitant. Those who care do their part and carry the can.

There's some good info here if you want to learn more: 
www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/bearmain.htm

L-Rod



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Sartini [mailto:r.sartini at rcn.com]
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:16 AM
To: Donna "L-Rod" Saufley; Robert W. Freed; pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] permits

When you say the Rangers make exceptions for thruhikers does that mean
bearcans are optional for thruhikers? I still don't have an idea if bear
cans  are just a "rule" or we REALLY need a bear cams. I get a lot of
"follow the rules" type answers and I'll be a good dubie and get one but do
I NEED one. If I'm a first class food hanger is that REALLY not good enough.
Are Sierra bears exposed to more clueless people than the Shendoah or the
Smokies? That would be a new level of cluelessness  I think.
"EVERYTHING is in walking distance,"
    ......Bamboo Bob
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donna "L-Rod" Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
To: "Robert W. Freed" <robert at engravingpros.com>; <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] permits


> Hmmm, I think that needs to be qualified a bit.  You don't need a Whitney
> sticker if you're accessing from the JMT's approach out of Crabtree.  You
> DO have to have a permit if you're staying overnight pretty much anywhere
> in the Sierras, or accessing the range through most side trails (ie.,
> Cottonwood Pass, Kearsarge, etc.) and some of those areas have quotas.
>
> Access to Whitney from the eastern Portal side is the ONLY place I've seen
> a ranger on the trail actively checking for permits and bear cans.  I've
> heard that they make exceptions for PCT thru-hikers, but that's not
> something I would want to leave to chance.  If a resupply in Lone Pine
> using the Whitney Portal Trail is planned, it might not be a bad idea to
> get the Whitney sticker.
>
> L-Rod
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: "Robert W. Freed" <robert at engravingpros.com>
>>Sent: Nov 28, 2008 9:58 AM
>>To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>>Subject: [pct-l] permits
>>
>> In 2007 the park rangers at the inter agency ranger station in Lone Pine
>> said you only need a Whitney permit if you are entering or exiting via
>> Whitney Portal. If you are just making a Whitney detour from Crabtree
>> Meadows "no permit required". I suggest that you resupply via Onion
>> Valley. Who wants to carry a pee bag for the next hundred miles any way.
>>
>>Robert
>>_______________________________________________
>>Pct-l mailing list
>>Pct-l at backcountry.net
>>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
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