[pct-l] DEAD HORSES
Will Hiltz
will.hiltz at gmail.com
Sat Aug 23 20:50:23 CDT 2008
Hi Reinhold-
If you'll go back and read my previous emails I think you'll find that I've
made no mention of the speed at which Scott & Joe were hiking. Further,
I've conceded what you postulate below... that S & J were singled out for
criticism. I would say this was for a number of reasons, but most
particularly because of their high visibility and notoriety on the trail.
They are role models, famous hikers, whatever you want to call it. As such
I thought they might consider holding themselves to a higher standard while
hiking. The ex post facto "but they didn't get in trouble so it must be no
big deal" doesn't abrogate their responsibility for a poor decision. Not
necessarily a bad decision for them personally, but a bad decision for the
LDH community. You and Joe continue to be unwilling to engage on this
particular point and fall back on accusing me of being bitter and jealous
without any real justification. I think its wonderful that Scott & Joe
hiked in 71 days, much as I would think it would be wonderful if that guy on
stilts made it all the way to Canada. My beef comes in when they start
disobeying regulations in a way that reflects poorly on our community as a
whole. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ULTRALIGHT OR SPEED HIKING. You feel
like engaging on this point or am I just beating a dead horse?
YITOOD,
Easy
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Reinhold Metzger
<reinholdmetzger at cox.net>wrote:
> Yes, Yes, Will,
> We heard it all before.....''I don't have anything against speed hikers, I
> just don't understand why anybody would want to speed through pristine
> wilderness like this....I don't understand how they can enjoy their hike?''
> Does that sound familiar to you?
> If you and the other critics are so neutral why is that you are only
> slamming and criticizing Scott & Joe?
> Why are you not criticizing the other hikers that hiked through the
> closures?
> Why are you focusing on Scott & Joe?...I say sour grapes may indeed be the
> suppressed reason.
>
> And yes, your mother was right when she said ''If you don't have anything
> nice to say....."
> That is exactly the problem, the grumblers and self proclaimed critics had
> nothing nice to say they only grumbled and criticized.
> They never have anything nice to say about speed hikers....they just
> grumble.
> Are you starting to see the light?
>
> JMT Reinhold
> The one who has seen the light
>
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> Will Hiltz wrote:
>
>> Rienhold-
>>
>> With respect, proclaiming this discussion as "beating a dead horse" does
>> not make it so. Indeed, being dismissive of those who would raise serious
>> concerns does nothing to advance a civil discussion. There are legitimate
>> issues being pondered here and to send repeated emails dismissing those
>> issues as mere grumbling does not contribute to productive discourse. For
>> my part, speed has never factored in my interest in the issue of more
>> effectively managing hikers traveling through (or more ideally NOT traveling
>> through) closed areas. This is of interest to folks who hike every year as
>> closures happen every year. What was it my mother always said... if you
>> don't have anything nice to say.... Well, you know the rest.
>>
>>
>> YITOOD,
>>
>> Easy
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 6:14 AM, Reinhold Metzger <
>> reinholdmetzger at cox.net <mailto:reinholdmetzger at cox.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes Joanne,
>> I sympathize with you....All this grumbling and criticizing Scott
>> & Joe, by a few individuals,
>> has been upsetting to me also.
>> Seems like every time someone like Scott & Joe goes on a speed or
>> record hike a few self
>> appointed ''Judges & Critics'' of proper hiking standards, who
>> can't stand the thought of speed
>> hikers zooming by them, feel compelled to criticize the speed hikers.
>> This year was no exception.
>> Other hikers have hiked through trail closures, but only Scott &
>> Joe were singled out for
>> criticism because speed hiking is frowned upon by those individuals.
>> Ohh sure, they will proclaim ''I have nothing against speed
>> hiking,'' but then grumble between
>> their teeth.....Could sour grapes have something to do with it?
>>
>> Yes Joanne, I recommend taking a hike to all my friends....it's
>> great medicine....has a calming
>> effect on people.
>>
>> I don't know why this is so upsetting to you, as a fellow hiker
>> you should know that hiking is
>> good for you and recommending it to your friends should not be
>> criticized.
>>
>> Say Joanne, I am contemplating on going on another JMT speed hike.
>> Would you like to come along?....It might calm you down.
>>
>> BTW...The UL revolution and speed hiking are here to stay, so you
>> might as well get used to it.
>>
>> JMT Reinhold
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>>
>> Joanne writes:
>> Actually, I have been finding all this Joe and Scott thing from you
>> Rheinhold to a little over the top.
>>
>> When I posted about Monstro ( Adam ), you were all in a panic that
>> somebody
>> that did not announce his intentions was somehow possibly going to
>> upstage
>> your buddies.
>>
>> I admire speed and endurance, I do not admire the constant
>> trumpeting of
>> their attempt that has occurred over the previous months.
>>
>> All the publicity and the trumpeting and the very public
>> announcements of
>> this attempt has put it in the public forum, and as such is open to
>> criticism. To tell detractors to "take a hike" does Scott and Joe a
>> disservice.
>>
>> Let them speak for themselves, rather than trying to share the
>> spotlight
>> with them. Maybe you should be out hiking yourself. Have you
>> ever done a
>> thruhike??
>>
>> .
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Reinhold Metzger" <reinholdmetzger at cox.net
>> <http://cox.net>
>> <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>
>> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net <http://backcountry.net>
>> <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:27 PM
>> Subject: [pct-l] Scott & Joe update
>>
>>
>> >/ Tortoise,
>> />/ Compadre, good buddy, my friend....I'm proud of you....''YOU
>> HAVE SEEN THE
>> />/ LIGHT''....you are
>> />/ finally accepting that it is ''THEIR'' hike and nobody else's
>> hike.
>> />/ As such it is also nobody's business how they hike their hike
>> or to
>> />/ criticize their hike.
>> />/ And that my friend, has been the core of this argument from
>> the beginning.
>> />/
>> />/ Take my advice Tortoise....the horse is dead....stop beating it.
>> />/
>> />/ Better yet, take a hike and I promise you, I will not
>> criticize your hike
>> />/ no matter how much I
>> />/ disagree with your hiking style.
>> />/ After all, it is your hike and it is not up to me to be a self
>> appointed
>> />/ judge or critic of
>> />/ your hike.
>> />/
>> />/ Reinhold
>> />/
>> />/ --------------------------------------
>> />/
>> />/ why are you going ballistic?
>> />/ It is Joe & Scott's hike, not yours.
>> />/ It is their record not yours.
>> />/
>> />/ and if you can't stand that all of us don't agree with you
>> that is your
>> />/ problem.
>> />/
>> />/ so stop beating this "dead horse" and stop digging up old
>> "dead horses".
>> />/ You too Jeff.
>> />/
>> />/
>> />/ And if Joe & Scott's record is such a big deal, why
>> aren't/weren't you
>> />/ there for a ceremony at the finish line?
>> />/
>> />/
>> />/ Tortoise
>> />/
>> />/ <> He who finishes last, wins! <>
>> />/
>> />/
>> />/
>> />/ Reinhold Metzger wrote:
>> />>// That's right Jeff,
>> />/ />/ Tortoise will get that record for sure....he is really
>> good at beating
>> />/ />/ dead horses....he has lot's of experience.
>> />/ />/ He is a master at it.
>> />/ />/
>> />/ />/ JMT Reinhold
>> />/ />/ ----------------------------------------
>> />/ />/ Jeff wrote:
>> />/ />/ jeff.singewald at comcast.net <http://comcast.net>
>> />/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> wrote
>> />/ />/ Beating a dead horse? I'm in if there is a record to be
>> attempted on
>> />/ />/ this one! This attempt may even be appropriate for the
>> tortoise(s) we
>> />/ />/ have on the list.
>> />/ />>/
>> />/ />>/
>> />/ />>/ -------------- Original message --------------
>> />/ />>/ From: "Joseph Anderson" <joedaddy44 at gmail.com
>> <http://gmail.com>
>> />/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>
>> />/ />>/
>> />/ />>/ > Does "Beating a dead horse" mean anything to anyone?
>> /
>>
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