[pct-l] Purell and Giardia

Sat Sep 15 15:12:36 CDT 2007

    I can understand your concern, however, I'd rather have natural plant oils in my water rather than the jet fuel, antibiotics, and hormones that are now found in all water sources.  I don't claim to be an expert and have all the answers.  Maybe there is something better to use for the wilderness.  What are you and other hikers using?  I did drop Dr. Bonner's a line regarding this issue and will post their reply when I receive it.

  As for my positive thinking....it does work great most of the time but didn't help me last night when I had an anaphylatic reaction to some soup I was drinking!  No amount of good thoughts kept the swelling down!  Hey, I'm only human too!

  Thanks for replying!  La Zorra

Donna Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
  Very interesting perspectives and thoughts. One thing you mention that I am
concerned about, and that is the use of Dr. Bronner's in the backcountry.
Although it is "all natural", it has lots of oils (17 different types and
fragrance) which I suspect/know don't break down very readily, and remain in
the environment. The oils are especially bad because they are not water
soluble. 

My bathtubs are olive green -- a throwback to the era when the house was
built -- and I have the damndest time getting the white film of the oils
from Dr. Bronner's off the porcelain. I quit using the product because of
it, and every time a bottle sneaks into the shower in the Hiker Heaven
guesthouse, I remove it and put it into the hiker box. I don't want all
those oils going into my septic system, either. 

So, I'm visualizing all of these same oils you're using in the backcountry,
going down into the soil, affecting the plant life, and ultimately working
into the water supply of the Sierras. That image truly disturbs me. 

L-Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of Liz Mares
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 5:35 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Purell and Giardia

As a nurse, I have to take issue with Sean's statement that an antibacterial
solution cannot create a superbug. There has been alot of debate ongoing
regarding this very issue. You can google "dangers of antibacterial soap"
and find a whole lot of information, for example from this site,
http://www.life.ca/nl/107/soap.html. The cleansing soap and the
antibacterial soap that they use at the hospital where I work are so
destructive to my hands, that I was advised by the employee health nurse to
bring in my own soap from home! Frequent use of antibacterial soap can
cause cracking and drying which are great reservoirs for bacterial and
fungal infections. Besides, to build a strong immune system you need
contact with bacteria, both good and bad!

I remember reading Roland Mueser book, "Long-Distance Hiking, Lessons from
the Appalachian Trail", c 1998, in which he talked about Giardia. My
impression was that the most Giardia was reported in hikers who used filters
over hikers who drank freely from the water sources untreated. Why?
Perhaps they weren't careful about their water sources. In the past, I have
used filters or just drank liberally straight from good water sources. This
year I used a Sawyer in-line filter that I learned about from the ADZPCTKO,
or drank straight from sources I determined were good. The worst water I
ever drank came from a cow pond on the Arizora trail. It was concentrated
goop, 2-3 inches of brown junk. It was the only water in many, many miles.
I let it sit overnight and then filtered it through a bandana. Then I
refiltered it with my water filter. Tang hid the tea color. ;-) I probably
narrowly missed getting Hepatitis from it, not to mention Giardia! I'm
happy to report
that I've never gotten ill from any water in the backcountry.

Even though I work in an Allopathic environment, I am more
Holistic/Alternative in my views. It has been my experience that the more
you fear something, the more you attract it. I believe also, that the mind
is the most powerful influence we have on our health and the more you tell
yourself positive thoughts, ie, "I am healthy", "This is good for me", etc.,
the more strongly will these concepts take hold. I just ran across some
interesting Russian research this morning that has a bearing on this...

Some recent Russian DNA discoveries documented by Grazyna Fosar and Franz
Bludorf in their book Vernetzte Intelligenz have been summarised by Baerbel.
‘The human DNA is a biological Internet’ with evidence that DNA can be
‘influenced and reprogrammed by words and frequencies.’ This suggests that
‘our DNA is not only responsible for the construction of our body, but also
serves as data storage and communication.’ The Russian scientists and
linguists have found that the genetic code ‘follows the same rules as all
our human languages.’ In effect, human language did not appear
coincidentally but is a reflection of our DNA.

(Did you catch that?..."Our DNA can be influenced and reprogrammed by
WORDS and frequencies.")

So, my advice would be not to worry about catching Giardia but do use good
handwashing technique in the back country. What do I use? I like Dr.
Bonner's Peppermint soap. For work (because I wash my hands so frequently),
I use Dr. Bonner's Unscented Baby-Mild Soap with pure Lemon and Lavender
oils to kill the germs.

May good health be with you, La Zorra

Sean Nordeen wrote:
Purell's Active incredient is alcohol not an antibiotic so it's use is not
going to create a resistant superbug. Also, as you rub your hands, it
evaporates so I wouldn't worry about the effect on the local environment.

My concern about these Giardia debates is taking either extreme position.
Saying that all water in the backcountry has it is wrong. Saying that it
doesn't exist at all is wrong. As an example, last year in the San Jacinto
State park in long valley there is a spring fed pipe. Some people have been
drinking out of that pipe untreated for 20+years. However, there was a
"confirmed" case of Giardia from it last year. Looking into it, I found out
that pipe is fed from a catch tank that occasionally when the rangers clean
it out, they find dead rats floating in it. Anyone who has hiked the
pristine Sierras for long has seen packhorses unloading themselves in the
middle of a ford. I feel sorry for the hiker who comes along a few minutes
latter and drinks up just downstream. Know your risks and be willing to pay
the penalty if you are wrong. But as stated, practice good hygeine and be
selective in the water you drink and your risks are probably small.

That said, someone I know who was a missionary to India for awhile talked
about the advice he was given by his doctor. Most GI tracts have a 80% good
to 20% bad bacteria balance. Anti-biotics can mess that ratio up as both
types rush to recolonize the tract. He was told to take probiotic "good
bacteria" supplements as a way of not allowing a place for bad bacteria to
gain a foothold on his trip. He was the only member of his team to return
after 6 months who did not get dysentery of some sort from drinking the
local water. He attributes his higher resistance to those supplements and
the yogurt that he ate liberally.

-Sean

------------------------------
>Before I go off trail to do my business, I set out my soap and water
>at a convenient spot, like on a rock. Then when I come back I can
>quickly wash my hands without pawing thru lots of stuff in my pack.

>I am reluctant to be constantly using disinfectants both because of
>their potential to disrupt local microbial environment as well as
>maybe leading to disinfectant resistant germs.
>
>Tortoise
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