[pct-l] RECORD SECTION HIKES

Thu Sep 6 23:29:03 CDT 2007

I am not that familiar with the operations of the PCTA office in 
Sacramento so I'm speaking generally here.

Most non-profits are trying to do as much as possible on their primary 
mission. Typically, the organizations are short on money, staff, and 
volunteers. I'm involved in a couple organizations and there are always 
good things to do but no money to pay for them and no one to do it.

Lots of people come up with lots of good ideas. However the suggester 
seldom comes up with the staff, volunteers, money, and other resources 
to do it. So let me suggest that those wanting the trail registers to be 
archived, etcetera come up with the money, staff, space, etcetera to do so.

Tortoise

<> He who finishes last, wins! <>

I switched to Mac OSX rather than fight Windows
Using Mozilla Thunderbird  http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Donna "L-Rod" Saufley wrote:
> Dearest Harriett,
>
> Counting would at least be anonymous and impersonal blind data. But unfortunately, the desire to get this information is more insidious than that.  It becomes about who, how fast, how slow, how old, and who skipped what.  For some, it's about proving or disproving whether some one actually accomplished what they said they did.  I know this because I have heard this conversation from some of those who want the information.  
>
> As you know, the wonderful folks at the PCTA are doing everything they can to accomplish their mission of protecting, promoting, and preserving the PCT with their limited resources and budget.  The trail is literally under siege in many areas due to development and conflicting resource demands.  The PCTA's hands are more than full up and down the trail.
>
> I long ago learned that the PCTA's mission is not to monitor hikers, or to allow others to do so using the PCTA as a means.  I have a real problem with someone bashing the PCTA, current director Liz Bergeron, or past director Bob Ballou for not satisfying their personal interest in monitoring past or present hiker activity.  I have the greatest respect for the aforementioned individuals and their contributions to the continued existence of the trail.  I truly wish everyone would focus their energies and interests on protecting and maintaining the trail.
>
> L-Rod
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>   
>> From: harriet von <harrietva at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Sep 3, 2007 9:56 AM
>> To: Donna L-Rod Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com>, Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>, pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] RECORD SECTION HIKES
>>
>> Hi Donna I know for fact that the PCT office had Boxes
>> and Boxes of old Registers.I am picking the Books up
>>     
> >from Manning for the last 9 years and Joe told me a
>   
>> long time ago that nobody looks at them.I do think
>> that if we sign the Register everybody can look and
>> count the hikers. Harriet
>> --- "Donna \"L-Rod\" Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Trail registers are one thing, as they are left out
>>> in the public domain for anyone to read. I am 100%
>>> certain that when a hikers signs a register, they're
>>> not doing so with the idea that someone will be
>>> tracking their progress and comparing or reporting
>>> it for others to see.  How creepy to have people you
>>> don't know monitoring your progress.
>>>
>>> Permit applications are another thing, as they have
>>> personal information, such as a mailing address
>>> along with your name.  The Graham Leech Bliley Act
>>> requires this type of information to be protected by
>>> the businesses and organizations who collect it.  
>>>
>>> To assume that the PCT has all the old trail
>>> registers is absurd.  Many trail registers have been
>>> scattered to the winds so to speak.  These were
>>> never official in any way, and there have never been
>>> any rules or instructions about what to do with them
>>> when they are full.  For example, I am still trying
>>> to recover our local registers from the heirs and
>>> estate of Darryl Readmond, who used to manage this
>>> section of trail.  He died, and the old registers
>>> were in his possession at the time of his death.  I
>>> am certain there are cases like this all up and down
>>> the trail.  
>>>
>>> I simply respect the rights of hikers to have their
>>> whereabouts kept private.  This is because some of
>>> them have told me outright that they didn't want
>>> anyone to know where they were.  Before I've posted
>>> that so-and-so is here at Hiker Heaven, I get
>>> permission from them to do so.  To not get
>>> permission is an invasion of their privacy.  Perhaps
>>> they are on the run from the law, or other personal
>>> demons.  Then, too, there were several incidents on
>>> the AT where hikers were stalked because of their
>>> journal postings -- very scary especially for young
>>> women on their own. And, some people just don't want
>>> to be found, period. The trail is a place where they
>>> can disconnect from everything.    
>>>
>>> There are those who want to follow the hikers
>>> progress like it's a horse race.  They want to know
>>> how fast, who skipped what, and compare them like
>>> some kind of commodity, whether the hikers
>>> themselves are seeking that type of awareness of
>>> their progress or not.  To those who wish to monitor
>>> this type of information, I say, "get a life and
>>> leave the hikers in peace!" They are not out there
>>> hiking for anyone's entertainment.
>>>
>>> If a hiker wants you to know of their progress or
>>> experience on the trail, they will keep a trail
>>> journal, post to some list or other, ask you to post
>>> it, or write about their journey after the fact and
>>> publish it somewhere.  Some people are more than
>>> willing to share their stories.  Others are not.  I
>>> truly believe we need to be respectful of that, and
>>> I see what I consider a blatant disregard of hiker
>>> privacy almost daily on the PCT-L.
>>>
>>> L-Rod
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>       
>>>> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
>>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2007 9:21 PM
>>>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>>>> Cc: "Donna \"L-Rod\" Saufley"
>>>>         
>>> <dsaufley at sprynet.com>, ed faubert
>>> <edfaubert at yahoo.com>, Steel-Eye
>>> <chelin at teleport.com>
>>>       
>>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] RECORD SECTION HIKES
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that a trail register is a public or
>>>>         
>>> semi-public record. 
>>>       
>>>> there is no indication that the information in a
>>>>         
>>> trail register is 
>>>       
>>>> confidential. In fact it seems that one purpose of
>>>>         
>>> a trail register is 
>>>       
>>>> to give hikers a legitimate way to say "I was here"
>>>>         
>>> as well as adding 
>>>       
>>>> other comments. Far better this than carving their
>>>>         
>>> name into a rock or 
>>>       
>>>> log. As someone else has said, if you want your
>>>>         
>>> where abouts to be 
>>>       
>>>> private, don't sign the registers.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, I would have to look at the wilderness permit
>>>>         
>>> regs before saying 
>>>       
>>>> whether or not a wilderness permit should be public
>>>>         
>>> information.
>>>       
>>>> Tortoise
>>>>
>>>> <> He who finishes last, wins! <>
>>>>
>>>> I switched to Mac OSX rather than fight Windows
>>>> Using Mozilla Thunderbird 
>>>>         
>>> http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/
>>>       
>>>>
>>>> Donna "L-Rod" Saufley wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>
>>>>> Because there are laws around privacy, and it's
>>>>>           
>>> nobody's damn business who hiked when and how old
>>> they were (or for that matter, who's on the trail
>>> right now and where they are).  If someone wants you
>>> to know those details they will keep a trail
>>> journal, post to this or some other list, or write a
>>> book. Many have chosen to do so.  For many other
>>> hikers, it's a very personal experience and not for
>>> the entertainment and speculation of others with
>>> apparently nothing better to do with their time.
>>>       
>>>>> I for one thank the PCTA for keeping this
>>>>>           
>>> information private.
>>>       
>>>>> L-Rod
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>           
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>>>       
>>
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