[pct-l] confusion over climbing Whitney:clarification

[cmkudija at earthlink.net]

At the risk of adding to the confusion, I'm going to speak up with respect
to the PCTA (not as a Board member, okay?).   The USDA/Forest Service
(USDAFS) makes the rules about Whitney permits and USDAFS wilderness areas.
The PCTA does not.  The USDAFS also changes the rules from time to time to
respond to conditions on the ground, to protect the wilderness resource,
etc.   The USDAFS also may not immediately inform PCTA Sacramento office
about details like travel in the Whitney zone - not to fault their staff,
but I have no idea what their ongoing priorities are in the local district.
Besides, although the PCTA might be in more frequent communication with the
Forest Service, you know how long-distance communication gets garbled.  Even
when it's posted on a list like this.

The agency makes the rules for what permits are required where.  PCTA
*issues* thru-hiker permits as a courtesy, with the USDAFS's blessing (it
helps to spread out those thin human "resources" on the public payroll). But
to find out what the specific *rules* will be for the upcoming through-hiker
season, if you care and want to conduct yourself in good faith, call the
agency.  They might not have had the budget or time to have updated their
website at the time you need the information.

Hmmmn.  This is a bit of a rant, a bit of an attempt to defend PCTA staff,
and a bit of an attempt to defend our hard-working public agencies.
One more thing in defense of PCTA staff - people want to be helpful, even if
they give out information that they are unaware has gone stale.   Would it
be better for PCTA staff to say, "Sorry.  Don't know, actually.  Those dang
agencies change the rules all the time.  I can't help you."   Click.

Christine "Ceanothus" Kudija
PCT partially '94

www.pcta.org
Join Now!

Ceanothus (see-ah-no-thus) or California lilac:  Shrubs or small trees,
often with divaricate, sometimes spiny, twigs...[flowers] small but showy,
white to blue or purplish, sometimes lavender or pinkish, borne in terminal
or lateral panicles or umbellike cymes.
                                                               Philip A.
Munz
                                                               A California
Flora, U.C. Press, 1973


-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]On
Behalf Of Gary Wright
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:46 PM
To: kmurray at pol.net
Cc: PCT MailingList; info at pcta.org; Slyatpct at aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] confusion over climbing Whitney:clarification

Note to PCTA:  This is a copy of an ongoing discussion on PCT-L, perhaps
you can comment?

On Jan 17, 2007, at 1:38 PM, kmurray at pol.net wrote:
> Actually, I *am* a wilderness ranger, and I promise I won't cite you!
>
> I'm also involved in giving a series of seminars on this exact
> topic at
> A-16 stores starting tonite, and I'd vetted this through the USFS
> people
> on the Inyo.
>
> HOWEVER, just to make ABSOLUTELY sure, I called and spoke to the
> wilderness permit office this morning, and confirmed that for PCT
> through
> hikers that start outside the Inyo National Forest, you DO NOT NEED
> any
> additional permit if you decide, on the spot, that you want to climb
> Whitney.....as long as you DO NOT cross Trail Crest. If a person
> wanted to
> resupply at Whitney Portal, you would need the exit permit, and
> significant numbers of people do that, and that may be why the PCTA
> includes that.

Bureaucrats surely can make things complicated.  The conversation you
had
with the wilderness permit office certainly doesn't agree with any of
the
information on the Inyo National Forest web site.  For what it is worth
here is my amateur interpretation:

1) You must have a Wilderness Permit for overnights the Inyo National
Forest
    -- the PCTA thru-hiker permit takes care of this

2) You must have a "Mt. Whitney Zone" sticker ($15) if you *enter*
    the "Mt. Whitney Zone" (day hike, overnight, from any trail)
    -- you can ask the PCTA to add this to your thru-hiker permit
    -- PCT is not in the zone, which starts east of Crabtree Meadows
    -- see map: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/
zonelarge.shtml
    -- see permit: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/
applications/Wilderness_Permit_Application_2006.pdf

3) You don't need a Trail Crest exit permit.
    -- only trail with an exit quota *but* it doesn't apply for hikes
that
       originate in Yosemite or Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks.
       Which is sorta, kinda, what a thru-hiker is doing.
    -- see: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/
whitneylottery.shtml

4) You don't need a Mt. Whitney Trail permit.
    -- thru hikers are not starting their trip on the Mt. Whitney Trail
    -- if you exit and enter within 24 hours (via Mt. Whitney Trail)
you are
       still on a contiguous trip, so you can resupply via Whitney
Portal
       without a problem.
    -- see: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/
whitneylottery.shtml

I can see no information at all that indicates that *any* type of
hiker is
exempt from the Whitney Zone fee.  I'd be really curious as to the
reasoning
the permit office gave you for saying that thru-hikers were excluded
from
that fee.

My logic re: the Trail Crest exit permit is a bit strained but it
would seem
to be in concert with the spirit if not the letter of the law/
regulations.
An alternate interpretation would be that the PCTA $15 Whitney Zone
Permit
implicitly includes Trail Crest exit permit.

Gary Wright (Radar)


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