[pct-l] America the Beautiful - for a fee

Wed Dec 13 16:37:30 CST 2006

Man, am I sorry for opening this one...
(I would have deleted and forgotten it, but it had Steve's name on it.
So y'all can thank Steve for the rant.)

But since I opened and read it:

This used to be called the "National Forest Adventure Pass", but since
it ONLY applied to southern California, the "national" felt like salt on
an open wound.

>From the USFS web site:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/ap/welcome.shtml
"Why? - The national forests of Coastal and Southern California are
heavily used, requiring more up-keep and maintenance to the many High
Impact Recreation Areas (HIRA)."

Someone help me out with this. Has anyone seen ANY improvements made
from the fee that helped in the "up-keep" or "maintenance" of anything
beyond a hundred yards of a road? What I've seen are MORE parking
spaces, MORE restrooms and MORE picnic tables. Doesn't this just invite
MORE use in the "high impact" areas?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for improving access to our forest areas and
I'll always jump at the chance to introduce city-folk to the beauty of
our wilderness areas! But these "improvements" do nothing to maintain
and up-keep anything beyond the parking areas.

As backpackers, all we need is a place to park our car. I don't need the
restrooms, the picnic tables or even the paved parking area. Once I've
shouldered my pack, I'm outta there! But I still need to pay $30 a year
to access the forest which is technically, as a tax payer, MINE already?

If the additional revenue is needed (I won't even debate that point),
wouldn't it be more fair to charge a day use for people who use these
parking/picnic areas rather than charge a fee to park at a trailhead?

My commute to work passes right by the photo on the USFS site of the El
Cariso Visitor's Center. But the pass isn't needed only at the areas
where the "improvements" are made, but along the entire length of
highway 74 in the national forest boundary. If I park alongside the road
to see Ortega Falls, I need to have a pass. If I stop to take a photo of
anything along this road, I need to display a pass.

Along the PCT in a national forest, if we wanted to park a car at the
trail, we need a pass. But I can count on one hand the locations between
Campo and the Sierra where you might be able to call "high impact
areas".

I strongly opposed the pass system. But if it's here to stay, then make
it truly "national" and reduce the annual fee, or make it a day-use fee
for the use of the public facilities, not the forest itself.

We're paying for tolls on roads built on publicly owned freeways and now
paying to access publicly owned forest. What's next?

Michael  Saenz
Associate Partner

MVE & Partners, Inc. | Architecture + Planning + Interiors 
Irvine + Oakland + Honolulu

1900 Main Street, Suite 800 | Irvine, California 92614-7318 | T
949.809.3388 | www.mve-architects.com
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Steve Courtway
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:55 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] America the Beatiful

You're right, in Southern California, we have the Forest Adventure Pass 
system, you buy an anual "pass" for 30 bucks (a 2nd one is 5 bucks more)
((I 
think those numbers are correct, as I adhere to the requirement
part-time)), 
which allows you to park at Cleveland, San Bernardino, Los Padres, and 
Angeles National Forest Trailheads.  Only within the last couple years
have 
the "adventure" passes been enforced on Mt. Laguna -  If you don't
display a 
pass, a ticket is left on your windshield to the tune of 5 bucks.  (I've

never paid one with no ill-results).  This summer, while camped at
Mineral 
King, and paying the new $12/night fee, I observed two rangers who were 
picking up trash.  Rollll in, empty a trash can, stretch, look around,
play 
a little grab-ass, maybe empty another one, stretch a little more, look 
around, smooch some more.  I don't feel so bad for skipping out on
National 
Forest Fees now and again.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim and/or Ginny Owen" <spiriteagle99 at hotmail.com>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:34 PM
Subject: [pct-l] America the Beatiful

> Where we live you don't have to pay to use the forests, however I
think 
> that
> in California and perhaps Oregon and Washington there is an annual
permit
> required to park at national forest trailheads.  Perhaps New Hampshire
as
> well?  I think I remember that the passes were only good for certain
> forests, and that if you traveled to another part of the state or to a
> different state you had to buy another permit.  Is that right?
>
> If so, this permit could save you money and would simplify the process
a 
> lot
> since one permit would work for all areas. It would especially be
handy 
> for
> people traveling who may not know that they need a special permit to
hike.
>
> For those of us who live in areas that don't charge for parking (yet)
- it
> is an added cost.  But we can choose whether or not to use the
National
> Parks or to hike elsewhere.
>
> I do agree that our taxes are supposed to pay for upkeep of the
national
> lands - but they don't and haven't for a lot of years.  "Temporary" 
> funding
> programs have become permanent, but it still doesn't begin to cover
the
> costs.  As the federal land base has expanded, the money to maintain
the
> lands has decreased.  Every time there is a new monument, wilderness
area 
> or
> park, the money comes out of some other park's budget. That budget
isn't
> growing and isn't likely to under the new Congress. The number of
people
> using the public lands is not growing and there are too many other
> priorities that will garner more votes.  People who don't use the
public
> lands are quite happy to see those who do pay for the use of them.
Like 
> it
> or not, it's likely to stay that way.
>
> Ginny
>
>
>
>
> http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/
>
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